...but god damn they are making it hard for me to not beat a dead horse!
WARNING: This is a rant.
One of the more frequent comments over on MainTankadin is not what we have, but what we don't have compared to warriors. It's driving me fucking mad. Now, I will admit the difference between health is a justified gripe. If you got a paladin and a warrior in equal gear, unbuffed, the paladin would have less health. This is something that should be fixed, but it can't just be fixed by buffing our health, because then you suddenly have super-healers or even worse... ret pallys in PvP with a ridiculous amount of health who can bubble, heal to full and utterly devastate their opponents. The appropriate fix would be a self buff (maybe combine it with Righteous Fury) that increases our health while it decreases our mana (since when we're tanking we don't need a hojillion mana to survive).
But I digress... the folks seem to latch on to some ability a warrior tank has, such as Thunder Clap or Spell Reflect, and point it out as a major failure in our ability to tank, and that we need a paladin version of that ability in order to ever be accepted as anything but a liability. Again, I'm not denying that paladins need buffing, what we don't need is copies of warrior abilities or something so close that it's essentially the paladin version. For example, one of the suggestions in one of Lore's recent posts was a new seal that made you immune to fear and it's judgment lowered mob attack speed. Sound familiar? If not, that's the effect of stance dancing into berserk stance and I believe another ability which makes a warrior immune to fears combined with a paladin version of Thunder Clap.
My feeling is this: If I want an attack-slowing effect, a AP debuff, a spell reflect, a fear immunity, a shield wall, a last stand, and some other abilities I'm unaware of... You know what? I'll go level my warrior up to 70 and tank with him. And beyond just the fact that I want unique abilities on tankadins, let's presume that we had all those abilities, and our health was buffed to equal to that of a warrior's, and everything else was equal, save that we had a mana bar and they had a rage bar. You know what would happen? Warriors would never tank, unless there were no tankadins in the raid. Because we start out with a full mana pool, and warriors start out with an empty rage bar means we can frontload threat and they can't. Changing one classes monopoly of a role for another is not the right answer. That would also be a giant slap in the face to all of those warrior tanks who enjoy tanking.
Another thing that bugs me is that a lot of people are wanting Holy Shield to play double duty. Have it be our crushing blow removing ability and our resistance fight ability (akin to Spell Reflect). Something like:
Now onto my point with all this: In 2.1 the devs added Improved Holy Shield, a 2 point talent that buffed Holy Shield in a welcome and surprising way. It increased the damage it did per block (minor buff) but it also added 2 charges to Holy Shield per point. So if you went 2/2 into Improved Holy Shield that changed it from 4 blocks over 10 seconds, which was equal to a warrior with Improved Shield Block to it having 8 blocks over 10 seconds, fully double of what a warrior can do.
This addition is, to me, very telling. It's not unknown that we would have a problem generating threat vs. elemental attack mobs and casters. They could have very well added an aspect to Holy Shield or a separate ability that would give a edge vs magic, but they didn't. Instead they chose to increase our ability to fight melee attack mobs, and specifically fast attack melee mobs. Maybe it was just a case of "hey this would be cool", but I prefer to believe that it the first step down a longer road towards us being the premier melee attack enemies.
Also, to add fuel to the fire, as things are now, we will never ever be as good as warriors on tanking caster bosses that melee. Why? 30% is why. Our uncrushable ability, Holy Shield, gives a startlingly low chance to block when compared to Shield Block. With that in mind, on a resist fight where the mob can crush I find it hard to believe that we will be able to reach the type of resist rates needed to survive the caster part while maintaining our uncrushability. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing and any fight which would be considered a resist fight is designed not to have crushing blows, even if the mob does physical melee damage. But if I'm right, we're just not comparable to warriors for those fights.
Now, as a final note the biggest annoyance I've seen is the belief that just because we aren't the ideal tank, that we shouldn't tank. Will things be harder on some fights? Yes. I'm not going to even kid myself about that. The fights where guilds that accept tanking paladins are at (SSC and TK) were designed at a time when the only accepted tanks in raids were warriors and maybe bears. Since the time of design of those raids, there have been what I consider massive changes to our class. We've been reborn, even more so since 2.1 and the Raid & Dungeon devs are only just now going to be catching up. And while we can't do anything but gauge our value based upon current content, I think it's a mistake to judge our flaws when we are fighting things that were made with warriors in mind. Of course we aren't going to be perfect. But at the same time, if you don't have any tanking warriors on hand we can still do a well enough job to come out on top and get some loot so your forward progress doesn't completely stall.
WARNING: This is a rant.
One of the more frequent comments over on MainTankadin is not what we have, but what we don't have compared to warriors. It's driving me fucking mad. Now, I will admit the difference between health is a justified gripe. If you got a paladin and a warrior in equal gear, unbuffed, the paladin would have less health. This is something that should be fixed, but it can't just be fixed by buffing our health, because then you suddenly have super-healers or even worse... ret pallys in PvP with a ridiculous amount of health who can bubble, heal to full and utterly devastate their opponents. The appropriate fix would be a self buff (maybe combine it with Righteous Fury) that increases our health while it decreases our mana (since when we're tanking we don't need a hojillion mana to survive).
But I digress... the folks seem to latch on to some ability a warrior tank has, such as Thunder Clap or Spell Reflect, and point it out as a major failure in our ability to tank, and that we need a paladin version of that ability in order to ever be accepted as anything but a liability. Again, I'm not denying that paladins need buffing, what we don't need is copies of warrior abilities or something so close that it's essentially the paladin version. For example, one of the suggestions in one of Lore's recent posts was a new seal that made you immune to fear and it's judgment lowered mob attack speed. Sound familiar? If not, that's the effect of stance dancing into berserk stance and I believe another ability which makes a warrior immune to fears combined with a paladin version of Thunder Clap.
My feeling is this: If I want an attack-slowing effect, a AP debuff, a spell reflect, a fear immunity, a shield wall, a last stand, and some other abilities I'm unaware of... You know what? I'll go level my warrior up to 70 and tank with him. And beyond just the fact that I want unique abilities on tankadins, let's presume that we had all those abilities, and our health was buffed to equal to that of a warrior's, and everything else was equal, save that we had a mana bar and they had a rage bar. You know what would happen? Warriors would never tank, unless there were no tankadins in the raid. Because we start out with a full mana pool, and warriors start out with an empty rage bar means we can frontload threat and they can't. Changing one classes monopoly of a role for another is not the right answer. That would also be a giant slap in the face to all of those warrior tanks who enjoy tanking.
Another thing that bugs me is that a lot of people are wanting Holy Shield to play double duty. Have it be our crushing blow removing ability and our resistance fight ability (akin to Spell Reflect). Something like:
Increase your chance to block by 30% and increase your resistance to all schools of magic by 50 for 10 seconds. Deals 155 holy damage for each attack blocked or resisted while active. Damage caused by holy shield causes 35% additional threat. Each block and resist expends a charge. 4 charges.Now, let's ignore the fact that this would be ridiculously unbalanced vs. instacast spell caster mobs/bosses and in PvP. That much is blatently obvious just by looking at it. But one ability that would make you simultaneously uncrushable and increase your spell resistance. That's beyond broken.
Now onto my point with all this: In 2.1 the devs added Improved Holy Shield, a 2 point talent that buffed Holy Shield in a welcome and surprising way. It increased the damage it did per block (minor buff) but it also added 2 charges to Holy Shield per point. So if you went 2/2 into Improved Holy Shield that changed it from 4 blocks over 10 seconds, which was equal to a warrior with Improved Shield Block to it having 8 blocks over 10 seconds, fully double of what a warrior can do.
This addition is, to me, very telling. It's not unknown that we would have a problem generating threat vs. elemental attack mobs and casters. They could have very well added an aspect to Holy Shield or a separate ability that would give a edge vs magic, but they didn't. Instead they chose to increase our ability to fight melee attack mobs, and specifically fast attack melee mobs. Maybe it was just a case of "hey this would be cool", but I prefer to believe that it the first step down a longer road towards us being the premier melee attack enemies.
Also, to add fuel to the fire, as things are now, we will never ever be as good as warriors on tanking caster bosses that melee. Why? 30% is why. Our uncrushable ability, Holy Shield, gives a startlingly low chance to block when compared to Shield Block. With that in mind, on a resist fight where the mob can crush I find it hard to believe that we will be able to reach the type of resist rates needed to survive the caster part while maintaining our uncrushability. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing and any fight which would be considered a resist fight is designed not to have crushing blows, even if the mob does physical melee damage. But if I'm right, we're just not comparable to warriors for those fights.
Now, as a final note the biggest annoyance I've seen is the belief that just because we aren't the ideal tank, that we shouldn't tank. Will things be harder on some fights? Yes. I'm not going to even kid myself about that. The fights where guilds that accept tanking paladins are at (SSC and TK) were designed at a time when the only accepted tanks in raids were warriors and maybe bears. Since the time of design of those raids, there have been what I consider massive changes to our class. We've been reborn, even more so since 2.1 and the Raid & Dungeon devs are only just now going to be catching up. And while we can't do anything but gauge our value based upon current content, I think it's a mistake to judge our flaws when we are fighting things that were made with warriors in mind. Of course we aren't going to be perfect. But at the same time, if you don't have any tanking warriors on hand we can still do a well enough job to come out on top and get some loot so your forward progress doesn't completely stall.